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conflicting approaches or maybe not

I'm having trouble resolving this. And I am a silent auditor so I can't ask Polona...

One of Silvia's first games in lesson 1 is that fist full of treats the dog has to learn not to paw or nibble or beg for by staring at your fist etc. but to learn to offer all kinds of other behaviors to get the reward from the fist. But, Polona's first lesson has the opposite goal with the fist of treats. She wants the dog to show some energy to directly get at the treats from your hand, specifically saying she wants determination pawing and nibbling etc to get the reward from the fist...

So can dogs understand that you are just playing a different game with the same set up?


I really like Polona's approach generally in her first assignments. These would be good for Stella. They are sort of like encouraging the bad dog in the dog, grabby-diving for food and jumping up on you with determination. Polona is encouraging "an attitude".



meanwhile we are making progress with object in object. I'm wondering whether switching from metal items to plastic items was key in our sudden success after so much randomness?

Comments

( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
nosemovie
Mar. 25th, 2015 06:20 pm (UTC)
I can see where there would be conflict here, but I can also see how your approach and attitude could get the "correct" response in each synario. If you are perfectly still... and just waiting for your dog to offer, that would be the silvia cue to offer anything other than the pawing.

If you were active in holding the treats, waving them around, dragging your fist on the floor, etc... that might indicate interaction with your hand. I think as long as your cues are super clear and super different, you could play both games
dinahprincedaly
Mar. 25th, 2015 08:21 pm (UTC)
yes your solution works great---they totally see the difference!! Yay Rosie to the rescue!!
gordongirls
Mar. 25th, 2015 06:35 pm (UTC)
I watched lesson 1 and I didn't even want to do most of the exercises. My dogs are already food motivated, and I do not want them pawing, jumping up on me or barking. That is just my preference in dog behavior. I'm waiting for future weeks to hopefully glean something with toys, chasing, etc. Food motivation -- we've got it!!
dinahprincedaly
Mar. 25th, 2015 08:30 pm (UTC)
I think both Razz and Stel like their food and treats. Higher on Stel's list than Razz's because he can still go hell-bent for a toy when he is over threshold and food rewards is just annoying in that state. Stella however, doesn't get to that hell-bent state easily through play, she's way too polite... so maybe playing with food, eager food play, tapping into prey drive is a good thing for her.
And where we have encouraged Razz to jump up on us, MEB's retrieve powering up into the hip, and we love his hugs and face kisses---we trained Stella NOT TO DO THIS and we'd like to un-train it... she needs more drive these days... I'd like her to want that kind of drivey contact or "engagement" with me... anything to get at me, I'd like her to want to bite my sleeves (she wouldn't think of it) with excitement... I feel terrible we trained this out of her... as a puppy her crazy growly play scared me. we did everything to COOL HER OUT, I didn't know much about dogs really... never heard of agility...

Edited at 2015-03-25 08:59 pm (UTC)
moodypdx
Mar. 25th, 2015 08:10 pm (UTC)
I think they are approaching things from different sides. Polona is assuming you have very polite dog, she is hoping to get your non-motivated, polite dog excited and interacting with you. While Silvia is assuming your dog is already excited and wanting to engage, so she is teaching more impulse control, or this is how I see it. Two different approaches for different dogs. So maybe Stella needs Polona's game while Razzle may need Silvia's;)
dinahprincedaly
Mar. 25th, 2015 08:43 pm (UTC)
I think you are right. I enrolled in the class because I feel more bold physical engagement with me/us would really help Stella. I can get her up, but I'd like to know more about it, how it works, other ways to get to her, to get her full of herself and way beyond her worries... and Razzle we knew from the beginning we wanted this physical engagement, a happy rude enthusiastic boy. (Poor Stel, we really dampened her inner party)
Right now, not even a week of it, his recalls have gotten so much better when he is at off leash, today he came every time I called, but I had a toy, always had toy and so really he was coming for a game of tug or retrieves and I think thats fine for now, but I'd like him to come to us just because its us. so I'm in Poloma's class for that too

by the way, Silvia got a little miffed when I described her fist of treats game as an impulse control game...

Edited at 2015-03-25 09:01 pm (UTC)
moodypdx
Mar. 25th, 2015 09:52 pm (UTC)
haaa, yeah, I could see that;) Impulse control is certainly a buzz word we throw around without really thinking about it;)
penichops
Mar. 26th, 2015 01:37 am (UTC)
Yeah I was going to say, Silvia wouldn't think of it as impulse control, more about encouraging desired behaviours. And I think that's an important distinction between how SG and ST play the same game
moodypdx
Mar. 26th, 2015 01:50 am (UTC)
Yes. Not just semantics, but emotional differences too.
talesofmyboys
Mar. 25th, 2015 10:36 pm (UTC)
Many dogs do not like the feel/taste of metal on their teeth, so quite possibly.
( 10 comments — Leave a comment )