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ok, so now I'm swimming up stream?

Lots of people have told me that everyone they know with running contacts are now teaching stops... 

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( 14 comments — Leave a comment )
biggmellon
May. 13th, 2012 12:41 am (UTC)
Not me!
dinahprincedaly
May. 14th, 2012 03:46 am (UTC)
some day I will be so happy to find new uses for my planks and benches... we'll get there... just have to keep Stella sound now
ripnpaws
May. 13th, 2012 01:53 am (UTC)
Not me. Stuff is still running. :-)
nosemovie
May. 13th, 2012 03:32 pm (UTC)
hahahahahahahahha!!! this cracks me up!
Can I tell you a story? Sure... go ahead you say (did you say that? Good. Ok)

The Sharp One is 5.5 years old. When he was a puppy LM came out with the brilliant idea of 1rto contacts. (stands for One Rear Toe On). The idea was that if you could get your dog to run through the contact and SHAPE a behavior where they only left one foot on it would take some of the stress off the 2o2o contact and give you a really flat back. Made perfect sense. So, as he was just a baby and I'd not trained any sort of contact with him, we followed the steps and got a really solid and (as I thought) awesome contact. But we weren't ready to compete yet, so we were just using it in practice and really firming it up. About 3-4 months after she wrote about how to do it, people began to question her and ask her about things that weren't working. The biggest one was the "rock back" so high drive dogs (hello, Mr. Red) would bound over the a-frame (this happens mostly there) and run through the yellow, but land off the contact, then rock back into the 1rto... This is not good. Many orgs will call you for that as it's leaving the obstacle and then returning. (more in the next reply... this is getting big!)
nosemovie
May. 13th, 2012 03:39 pm (UTC)
Razor would do that a bit too. But I've found ways to manage it and as long as I don't have a really straight line to the a-frame and it's not too much momentum, normally he lands his 1rto very nicely (as you can see):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42785695@N05/7071451797/sizes/z/in/photostream/

(that one actually still has two feet on, but his body is very differently positioned from the standard 2o2o.)

Anyway. Those who shaped that behavior but had trouble with it in trials began to poo-poo it and go back to whatever they were doing before, or started with other things, like running.

We stuck with ours. I like it. It's the most SOLID agility thing he has. PLUS because it fell out of favor so quickly, we're pretty unique in using it. I rarely see another 1rto out there (at least not around here).

As for you guys. I think running will help with Stel's momentum and certain with any injury issues. I think a lot of people who are ditching it are unable to GET to where they need to be to manage the exits (with turns and such) and tho they trained the running and love it, they've not taken the time to train the turning and the things you need after the contact is done. So they get off-courses and get all upset. duh..

I discussed this with Heather last week regarding Rini's future contacts. She could do running. She's little and I bet I could teach it even with the limited access we have to equipment. But I don't really want one. I think a stop helps ME most of all (at least I've experienced that with Razor) and it's the "team" that needs to be in sync here... not just the dog to be the fastest she can be. I think Stella could use the momentum a running would give her. But you have to decide what works best for you BOTH... Plus heck, you had fun training it.. No?
dinahprincedaly
May. 14th, 2012 03:42 am (UTC)
thanks for the story! good to know. Fun? yes. I like a challenge especially when there are people that think I can't do it... and she was brilliant today in standard---her contacts deep and fast!!! yay us!~
nosemovie
May. 14th, 2012 02:23 pm (UTC)
See? There ya go. Let that freak flag fly, that's what I always say.

and I always chuckle when people seeing his contact say something like "Oh, how cute, he left his little back food on..."

Yep, he certainly did...
borderpap
May. 14th, 2012 11:22 pm (UTC)
I read this earlier, but really couldn't reply. But now I can ;-)

I think running contacts are very hard to really teach. I know I have struggled with Meri, but I am committed to them for her, and for my future dogs, but I will likely teach a stop for times when I want control on the dog walk.

I am also working on teaching Speck a stop or run on the AF. Basically, if I am behind, I want him to stop, and if I am running I want him to run. It's working fairly well right now. I won't teach Meri this at all.

So, I bet there will be a lot of people just going to only stopped, some going to stopped in certain conditions and a few others not going to stop at all. I do think that they will keep the running AF.
dinahprincedaly
May. 15th, 2012 02:28 pm (UTC)
I appreciate you coming back to comment later...
I think running contacts are hard to really teach too, well, for some dogs... double especially if you live in the city or even part time in the country a little nearer to equipment and your dog gets injured and/or winter happens just when you are getting somewhere... I've been committed to training it for a year, but the actual time spent training it has not been any significant continual length... so I am hoping this summer...
I know part of our problem is MY learning curve... it took me a long time to know how to train it, what I was physically looking for and to get the timing... poor Stella, must be very confusing

I'm curious: when you train both running and stop for one dog... what is your cue, or your cues, and when, so the dog knows going on the DW what the end behavior will be?

I can see how training both is useful and possible, but I think the order for me would be get the running down first which I feel is the harder to train
borderpap
May. 15th, 2012 04:17 pm (UTC)
For Speck, I say "spot" for him to stop and don't say anything for him to run. I am also using my motion. If I am running with tons of forward cues, I expect him to run.

I totally agree with training the running first.
dinahprincedaly
May. 15th, 2012 02:28 pm (UTC)
you're not REALLY going to give up Meri are you?
borderpap
May. 15th, 2012 04:17 pm (UTC)
Oh no, still doing a running with Meri and I am toying with the idea of teaching her a stop on the DW for when I want a turn.
dinahprincedaly
May. 15th, 2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
ah, no... i meant rehoming her?

is that common that females can get along fine as youngsters and then mature into irreconcilable nastiness?

I should probably think about this when I think about the second dog...
borderpap
May. 15th, 2012 04:57 pm (UTC)
Actully, Meri isn't the issue. It really is Emma. Meri has finally had enough. I am really torn about it. But I am afraid that Meri will turn into a uber bitch and she's such a lovely girl. I am going through my options now.

It makes me very sad.
( 14 comments — Leave a comment )